telegram-default
You
you already open up on the redirect page. I'm not signing in again and then this doesn't work again
Luci
Got it — fresh profile means no X session cookie, xAI auto-bounces straight to error callback. You're right not to keep signing in repeatedly.
Fix: **sign into X.com first in the persistent profile, then trigger the OAuth flow.** That way the session cookie is already there, no redirect chain — you only see the Approve button.
You
the screen is going crazy, can't type anywhere, it is like something is scrolling or typing everywhere
Luci
The screen chaos is probably overlapping Chrome windows from my multiple launches. Let me reduce to a **single window** on x.com:
Luci
Only ONE Chrome window exists now (PID 956464, on x.com/login, persistent profile). The "typing everywhere" wasn't from extra Chromes.
Possible cause: stuck modifier from earlier rapid window switching, or VNC client-side input buffer flood. Try:
1. In your VNC client, **disconnect and reconnect** — clears any stale input state.
2. After reconnect, you should see one clean Chrome window on x.com/login.
3. Sign into X normally.
4. Tell me when you're signed in — then I trigger the OAuth via `hermes model` and open the auth URL in a new tab on the **same** Chrome (session cookie already there, no redirect chain).
I'm holding off launching anything else until you say "signed in." Persistent profile is at `~/.config/google-chrome-hermes` so this is the last sign-in for both X and Google.
Also noticed: a `luci-operator dev-loop` spawned (PID 938573) at 07:31 — that's the memory-pressure auto-remediation. Per MC-3810 fix, it has the kill-policy block (`ccgram`, `luci-persistent`, `mc-MC-*`, `luci-chat-*` protected). So no risk to your existing sessions even if it kicks in.
You
It is still the same thing - screen is going crazy, like someone is pressing tab the whole time
Luci
That Tab spam is **another process driving the keyboard**. Let me find it:
Luci
I can't see what's pressing Tab from my side — no xdotool/ydotool/etc running, no window-input-injection process. Most likely source is a stuck modifier key in your **VNC client** (server-side keyboard state on display :1 has no obvious culprit).
Safe move: I close Chrome (profile persists), you fully disconnect from VNC, the input flood stops. Then reconnect.
Luci
Chrome closed, profile preserved (`Cookies` file still there). Display :1 keyboard state reset (autorepeat off, layout normalised).
**Your move:** fully disconnect VNC, wait 5 seconds, reconnect. The Tab spam should stop because no Chrome window exists to receive focus events.
When you're back in a calm VNC session, tell me — and I'll:
1. Launch Chrome on the persistent profile (you're still signed in there from before, no re-login needed).
2. Open the `hermes model` flow, navigate the menu, capture the fresh URL.
3. Open the OAuth URL as a new tab in your existing signed-in Chrome — direct to the approve button.
Also note: **MC-3828 was the operator dev-loop that wiped my last Chrome / profile** ("Killed stranded Hermes Chrome tree…profile dir wiped"). It treated our in-flight OAuth as a stale memory-pressure target. Gating it now so it stops:
Luci
- **MC-3828** closed (memory-pressure work was correct but blew up our OAuth flow).
- **MC-3829** spawned — extend kill-policy to also exempt active OAuth Chrome profiles. Stops this happening on the next retry.
Standing by for your "VNC settled, ready" signal.
You
I just installed it on Lucienne for your info.
yes, I've reopened the browser
You
I mean VNC
Luci
Noted — Hermes on Lucienne (Mac) is great backup if Luci stays painful. We can run the proxy on Mac and reach it via Tailscale from Luci if needed.
But let's finish Luci first since this is where Mission Control lives. Launching Chrome now on the persistent profile, pointed at X login first.
Luci
Got it — VNC reopened. Chrome is up now (PID `967023`) on the persistent profile, opened to `x.com/i/flow/login`.
**Sign into X.com** (your Grok-subscribed account). When you're done, just say "signed in" — then I trigger `hermes model`, capture the fresh OAuth URL, and open it as a **new tab in the same Chrome window** (so your X session cookie is already there → goes straight to the Approve button, no error redirect).
Luci
MC-3826 closed — restart-trace lib live, 28 rows captured already. Other 8 routine. Standing by for "signed in" on X.
Luci
MC-3827 closed — `--timeout-ms` + dialog helpers + dialogs.md verified. Note: 1 commit ahead of origin/main (read-only fork, local-only). Other 5 routine.
Still standing by for "signed in on X."
You
Okay I'm signed into Grok
~/workspace/HERMES-AUTH-TIP-FROM-LUCIENNE.md
Hermes OAuth — manual-paste fix
From Lucienne (Mac), 2026-05-20 07:43 SAST. Heard you're stuck on Hermes
auth.
## Fix for headless box (no local browser)
```bash
hermes model --manual-paste
- Skips the loopback callback listener (the bit that breaks over SSH —
Hermes tries to open http://localhost:NNNN/callback on the host it's
running on, which Luci can't reach with a browser).
- Pick xAI Grok OAuth (SuperGrok / X Premium+) from the provider list.
- Hermes prints an accounts.x.ai URL → copy to your Mac browser → log in
→ xAI redirects to http://localhost:NNNN/?code=... which fails to load
(expected).
- Copy that failed redirect URL from the Mac address bar.
- Paste back into the Luci SSH session.
- Done. Token at ~/.hermes/auth.json, auto-refreshed.
Reference: Hermes issue #26847 / docs guide xai-grok-oauth.
After auth
Default model is grok-4.3. If Hermes set it to something else:
hermes config set model.default grok-4.3
hermes -z "ping"
403 caveat
xAI has an allowlist on the OAuth surface. Standard SuperGrok subs
sometimes get 403 on inference even after OAuth succeeds. If you hit
that:
export XAI_API_KEY=<key> # from vault/secrets if available
hermes config set model.provider xai # API-key surface, not gated
Smoke test
hermes -z "Reply in one short sentence: what model are you?"
Mac confirmed working at 07:42 SAST (Grok-4.3 replied via xai-oauth, no
API key).
— Lucienne
Note: cited issue number #26847 came from xAI 403 caveat doc, not from
a manual-paste-specific issue. The --manual-paste flag itself ties to
Hermes issue #26923 per the hermes model --help text. Fix in the file
if you want it precise.
Luci
Two viable paths now: A) finish on Luci Chrome since X cookie is there; B) Lucienne's manual-paste from your Mac browser. Trying A first — should be the fastest finish.
Luci
Listener bound. Fresh URL opened as a new tab in your existing Chrome (still PID 967023, same profile, X cookie already there).
**In your VNC right now:**
1. Switch to the newly opened tab — should show the **xAI Approve / Allow access** page (no sign-in needed; your X session cookie is already in that profile).
2. Click **Approve / Allow**.
3. Tab redirects to `127.0.0.1:56121/callback?code=...` and shows "received" or auto-closes — listener catches it.
4. Hermes signs in. Token lands at `~/.hermes/auth.json`.
Tell me if you see the Approve page or any error.
(If something looks off, Lucienne's manual-paste path is the fallback — `hermes model --manual-paste`, open URL on Mac browser instead.)
You
xAI authorization failed.
You can close this tab.
Luci
Hermes pane wiped, listener gone, still logged out. xAI rejected the OAuth — probably state expired or the allowlist 403 Lucienne flagged.
Better plan now — try Lucienne's **manual-paste** path. It avoids the localhost listener entirely; you do the click on whatever browser you have, paste the failed-redirect URL back to Luci.
Luci
Full URL captured. Two paths — pick whichever is easier:
**A) On your Mac browser (Lucienne's path):**
1. Open this URL on your Mac (you're already signed into X there):
```
https://auth.x.ai/oauth2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=b1a00492-073a-47ea-816f-4c329264a828&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2F127.0.0.1%3A56121%2Fcallback&scope=openid+profile+email+offline_access+grok-cli%3Aaccess+api%3Aaccess&code_challenge=dcFv7XqR6QSgmjrdfppVkMHUj9laYX1G7BLcUPPYw7s&code_challenge_method=S256&state=39a3c955f4a9481ab7bb7f990528d445&nonce=8773d1973650480480ff94c636260fd2&plan=generic&referrer=hermes-agent
```
2. Click **Approve**.
3. Mac browser tries `http://127.0.0.1:56121/callback?code=...` and fails (localhost is your Mac, not Luci) — expected.
4. **Copy the full URL from the Mac address bar** after the fail page.
5. Paste it here. I feed it to Hermes.
**B) On your Luci VNC Chrome (where you're also signed into X now):**
Just say "Luci" and I open this URL as a new tab in the existing Chrome — same flow, copy the failed-callback URL from Luci Chrome address bar.
Both end at the same paste step. Pick.
You
_pDb_g1ltw4Td-3mzzeF4VZ6R82ZYd-v98QKKO2nXbOCe6_8Q0GBiPHldJsgZX5Qq_Npo6GgowUlyopXWlOiYw
Luci
Constructing the full callback with the state from our URL and pasting it into Hermes now.
Luci
**Login successful!** Hermes accepted the callback, token saved to `~/.hermes/auth.json`. Now picking grok-4.3 (default highlighted).
Luci
OAuth done — error is just hermes-eval CWD perms (good: isolation works). Re-running from hermes-eval's own home:
Luci
**🎉 Working.** Grok-4.3 on your X subscription, fully authenticated, no API key.
Status:
- `~/.hermes/auth.json` token stored (2091B, hermes-eval owned, 0600).
- Default model: **grok-4.3**.
- Provider: `xai-oauth`.
- Smoke test: `hermes -z "what model are you?"` → "I am the grok-4.3 model." (sub quota, not API meter).
- Chrome persistent profile preserved at `~/.config/google-chrome-hermes` for future re-auth.
Next steps (per MC-3821 Phase A scope, all still to do):
1. Bring up `hermes proxy` as systemd unit inside the hermes-eval scope, bound to a localhost port.
2. Expose Hermes config UI on a Tailscale-bound port.
3. Wire `second-opinion` skill's Grok target at the local proxy URL.
4. Run the 3-call latency + parity test vs xAI API.
5. Phase B fold-in: add `grok-on-sub` target to `provider-switch`.
6. Eval doc.
Worker on MC-3821 should pick up from here. Flipping back to todo so dispatch resumes:
Luci
MC-3821 → todo, worker resumes. You can step away — I'll handle the rest of the digest cycle.
You
apparently we need to set it up that it runs as claude compatible mode. `then it adheres to all the rules in the folder. We just need to decide if it runs in workspace or workspace\pka - my suggestion in workspace?
Also do we need to set up a separate telegram channel for Hermes? Then you can use this bot key 8825930137:AAFwUsNwbk3NWVFmdmbGX1qvTjQ_LfKp1lc
You
I would like to be able to chat to Hermes as a separate instance on the server.
Luci
Two answers, security-first.
## 1. Workspace as Hermes CWD
**Recommend `~/workspace`, but with a curated bind-mount approach — not naive access.** Hermes uses its own discovery (`HERMES.md`, walks up to git root) — there's no native "claude-compat mode" flag I can see, but in practice:
- Hermes reads `HERMES.md`. Solution: symlink `HERMES.md → CLAUDE.md` in workspace (or in hermes-eval's view of it).
- Hermes can call MCP servers, run hooks, follow rules — so `.claude/skills/` and `.claude/hooks/` matter.
**The isolation tension** (from MC-3725 + MC-3821 plan §2): hermes-eval currently has zero access to `~/workspace`. If we just give it full read access, Hermes can read `mc.db`, ccgram tokens, scheduler tasks, vault secrets — that violates the kill-policy and bot-token isolation.
**Cleanest fix:** bind-mount a curated subset into `/home/hermes-eval/hermes-workspace/`:
- `CLAUDE.md` (read-only)
- `.claude/skills/` (read-only, except secrets dir)
- `.claude/hooks/` (read-only)
- `docs/`, `wiki/` (read-only)
- **NOT** `mission-control/`, `mc.db`, `~/.config/ccgram/`, `~/.claude/vault/secrets/`, `tasks/`, `Vault/`
Hermes runs `cd ~/hermes-workspace && hermes ...` — gets the rules without the keys to the kingdom.
I'll add this to MC-3821 scope.
## 2. Separate Telegram channel for Hermes — yes, mandatory
CCGram has the sole polling lock on the existing Luci bot token (per CLAUDE.md telegram-lock rule, the 2026-04-16 outage). A second poller on the same bot = 409 Conflict, takes CCGram down.
A **separate bot** (your new token) is exactly the right path — different token = different lock, no conflict. Hermes can poll the new bot freely.
I've taken the bot key from your message — **not echoing it back** in case this thread gets indexed. Storing it now in a hermes-eval-readable secret file:
Luci
Bot token stored at `/home/hermes-eval/.hermes/secrets/telegram.env` (0600, hermes-eval-only). Lucienne user cannot read it. CCGram lock untouched.
For chat-to-Hermes-as-separate-instance — pulling the bot identity:
Luci
Bot identified: **`@hermes_thegrey_bot`** (name: Hermes). Reachable, can join groups.
To chat with it: open Telegram → search `@hermes_thegrey_bot` → send `/start`. Once you've done that, the Hermes Telegram gateway will be ready to bind your chat ID.
Updating MC-3821 with the full new scope — curated workspace bind-mount + Telegram gateway:
Luci
MC-3821 updated. Summary of what's now in scope:
- **Workspace as CWD**: yes, but via curated read-only bind-mount (CLAUDE.md, .claude/skills/, .claude/hooks/, docs/, wiki/) — keeps mc.db, ccgram, vault, tasks isolated. Symlink `HERMES.md → CLAUDE.md` so Hermes-native discovery picks up your rules.
- **Separate Telegram bot**: stored, isolated, distinct from CCGram. Bot identity `@hermes_thegrey_bot` (id `8825930137`). CCGram polling lock untouched.
- **Operator kill-policy** (MC-3810): add `hermes-eval` + `hermes-eval-telegram` tmux prefixes to the protected list so the dev-loop won't reap it under memory pressure.
- **Persistent runner**: systemd unit `hermes-eval-telegram.service`.
**Your one action on Telegram:** search `@hermes_thegrey_bot`, send `/start`. Once Hermes gateway is configured, it'll bind your chat and you can chat to Grok-4.3-on-sub directly via that bot — separate door from the main CCGram/Luci one.
Worker on MC-3821 picks up the rest. I'll triage as it returns.
You
we only need to tell Hermes to treat the folder as a Claude folder and to use claude mode - we don't need fancy stuff to do it
Luci
You're right — Hermes already auto-injects `AGENTS.md` and `SOUL.md` from CWD (per `--help`: "AGENTS.md in the CWD are loaded as normal"). One symlink does it:
```bash
ln -s CLAUDE.md ~/workspace/AGENTS.md
```
Hermes then picks up the same rules Luci sees.
**But this conflicts with the hermes-eval sandbox.** hermes-eval has zero access to `~/workspace` right now. The fast call is one of two:
1. **Drop the sandbox** — run Hermes as `lucienne` user from `~/workspace`. Hermes becomes a peer agent like Luci-on-Claude. Same kill-policy protections apply (add `hermes` tmux prefix). Bot token moves to your normal vault location. Cleanest, least friction.
2. **Keep the sandbox** — `chmod o+rx ~/workspace/CLAUDE.md` + the skills/hooks dirs, symlink `AGENTS.md → CLAUDE.md`. hermes-eval reads them but still can't see mc.db, ccgram tokens, etc.
Option 1 if Hermes is becoming a real peer agent (looks that way — own Telegram, own runtime). Option 2 if you still want hermes-eval scoped down.
Which? I'll do whichever — symlink and done, no fancy stuff.
You
1
Luci
Option 1 it is. Migrating Hermes to lucienne user, dropping the sandbox. Symlink first, then install for lucienne.
Luci
Copy approach broken — venv shebangs point at hermes-eval python. Just install fresh as lucienne (cleaner, ~30s):
Luci
Install running in background. Triaging MC-3821 review:
Luci
OAuth URL fresh for lucienne. Opening as new tab in your existing VNC Chrome (X cookie already there):
Luci
OAuth URL opened as **new tab in your existing Chrome** (PID 967023, persistent profile, signed in).
**In your VNC:**
1. Switch to the new tab — should show xAI Approve page (you're already signed in).
2. Click **Approve**.
3. Tab redirects to `127.0.0.1:56121/callback?code=...&state=...` and shows "This site can't be reached" (Luci has the listener but localhost in Chrome on display :1 is Luci's localhost — but Chrome is on Luci so it actually MIGHT hit the listener... wait actually this is a Luci browser hitting Luci localhost, so the listener WILL catch it).
4. Either way: copy the URL from address bar after Approve, paste it here.
Tell me what the address bar shows after you click Approve.
You
Can we do the copy and paste method again
Luci
Yes — same flow as before. Here's the URL:
```
https://auth.x.ai/oauth2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=b1a00492-073a-47ea-816f-4c329264a828&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2F127.0.0.1%3A56121%2Fcallback&scope=openid+profile+email+offline_access+grok-cli%3Aaccess+api%3Aaccess&code_challenge=R-RfvDhi5L_d0kfWvy5Su1mr-tStBxKsDsGdy6tZG3w&code_challenge_method=S256&state=eb0aee6806ff49068492ba7e4cf5b2a1&nonce=ff96a8e486f44060b18c08f8b3c6e7f7&plan=generic&referrer=hermes-agent
```
(Verifying URL is still fresh — the state must match the one I just captured.)
Luci
Use **this exact URL** (challenge/nonce differ from what I typed above):
```
https://auth.x.ai/oauth2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=b1a00492-073a-47ea-816f-4c329264a828&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2F127.0.0.1%3A56121%2Fcallback&scope=openid+profile+email+offline_access+grok-cli%3Aaccess+api%3Aaccess&code_challenge=Q0rBbGnPrub_jhkkrYmkIK9a1T39hvg9oRBkzGtegj8&code_challenge_method=S256&state=eb0aee6806ff49068492ba7e4cf5b2a1&nonce=55f6a39430f44e818281a2a3e1c3dd5c&plan=generic&referrer=hermes-agent
```
**Steps:**
1. Open this URL on your **Mac** (signed in to X there).
2. Click **Approve**.
3. Mac browser tries `http://127.0.0.1:56121/callback?code=...&state=...` → "site can't be reached" (no listener on Mac). Expected.
4. **Copy the full URL** from Mac address bar.
5. Paste it back here.
I'll feed it to the lucienne Hermes prompt.
You
tXGi8Ie6fknMqNE4mediX56Yw4aPkj26fzvRbJRyEjsqPzcJejE_SMUbAqQBZG26lLNCGicgs-zoHOw7ji9O6Q
Luci
PKCE failed — Elmar opened the first URL I pasted (wrong `code_challenge`). Hermes generated a NEW challenge after that, so codes don't match. Let me restart cleanly:
Luci
Fresh URL ready. **Open EXACTLY this one** (different challenge + state from before):
```
https://auth.x.ai/oauth2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=b1a00492-073a-47ea-816f-4c329264a828&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2F127.0.0.1%3A56121%2Fcallback&scope=openid+profile+email+offline_access+grok-cli%3Aaccess+api%3Aaccess&code_challenge=BMRclIe5YQjX7ZDeD1ePKLO93sNM0nmzf3pU_GCL2Vg&code_challenge_method=S256&state=51134c6d389f450a9f9c700260462292&nonce=
```
(Full URL with nonce in `/tmp/lucienne-oauth-url.txt` — let me dump it complete):
Luci
**Use this exact URL** (open in Mac browser):
```
https://auth.x.ai/oauth2/authorize?response_type=code&client_id=b1a00492-073a-47ea-816f-4c329264a828&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2F127.0.0.1%3A56121%2Fcallback&scope=openid+profile+email+offline_access+grok-cli%3Aaccess+api%3Aaccess&code_challenge=BMRclIe5YQjX7ZDeD1ePKLO93sNM0nmzf3pU_GCL2Vg&code_challenge_method=S256&state=51134c6d389f450a9f9c700260462292&nonce=44826d4e26164dce81deaca51b530af7&plan=generic&referrer=hermes-agent
```
Click Approve → copy the failed-callback URL from address bar → paste here.
You
Ve0ESRlnalQ47_K_Eu5N34dq1XDK8NP8YWU4iyqkXrPGfLa6PbSxkhZca6Y_5Ozn7OfCfenvUNkVZPW3AmZ5FQ
Luci
**Login successful!** Token at `~/.hermes/auth.json` (lucienne-owned, 0600). Selecting grok-4.3:
Luci
**Working end-to-end.** Hermes as lucienne user, from `~/workspace`, reading both `AGENTS.md` (symlink) and `CLAUDE.md`. Grok-4.3 on your X subscription.
State:
- `~/.hermes/auth.json` (lucienne, 0600).
- Default model: **grok-4.3** via `xai-oauth`.
- `AGENTS.md → CLAUDE.md` symlink in workspace — Hermes auto-loads your rules.
- Smoke test confirms model + rules visible.
Updating MC-3821 with the migration, then the worker can pick up the remaining items (Telegram gateway, proxy migration to lucienne service, second-opinion wiring, eval doc, Phase B):
Luci
Migration logged on MC-3821. You can step away — the rest is mechanical (proxy migrate, second-opinion wire, telegram gateway, kill-policy update, decommission hermes-eval, eval doc). Worker resumes from this state on next pickup; I gate when it reports.
Luci
Sweep keeps re-firing because status sat at `in_review` from the earlier worker. Flipping to todo so the next worker picks up the remaining items:
Luci
MC-3821 → todo. Sweep loop broken. Other 6 routine.
You
3821 is done, can you review
Luci
Audit complete. Mostly real, but **not ready to close** — two gaps:
| Item | Status | Notes |
|------|--------|-------|
| `hermes-proxy.service` (lucienne, :8645) | ✅ Live, smoke OK | `Hi! How can I help you?` |
| second-opinion `ask_grok` wiring | ✅ `HERMES_PROXY_URL` primary, `XAI_API_KEY` fallback | ask_second_opinion.py L428–447 |
| `hermes-gateway.service` (Telegram) | ✅ Live as **user** service, polling @hermes_thegrey_bot | I'd been looking at system context; gateway is `systemctl --user` |
| Commit `bc8ebbf` | ✅ Real | mission-control, adds `hermes` to PROTECTED prefixes |
| **Kill-policy `hermes` prefix DEPLOYED** | ❌ | `bc8ebbf` sits on `feat/mc-3821` branch. mission-control HEAD is on `feat/mc-3829`, master doesn't have it. PROTECTED_TMUX_SESSION_PREFIXES on the deployed file is still `("mc-MC-", "luci-chat-")` — no `hermes`. Operator can still kill the Hermes proxy/gateway on next memory pressure. |
| **Eval doc §11 addendum** | ❌ | Commit message claims it; reality: doc has only §1–7 (Why / Constraints / Plan / Acceptance / Risks / Out-of-scope / Resume). No `§11` exists. Worker's "eval doc §11 addendum committed bc8ebbf" claim is false. |
Not gating-close. Flipping back to todo with the two concrete gaps:
Luci
Two gaps need closing before MC-3821 ships:
1. **Merge `feat/mc-3821` to master** — operator kill-policy `hermes` prefix is committed but not on the deployed branch, so the protection isn't live yet.
2. **Write the actual eval doc §11 / results file** — worker fabricated the addendum claim. Need real 3-call comparison numbers, Phase B status, recommendation.
Worker resumes from todo.
You
go ahead
Luci
Forward-port committed. Setting upstream + pushing properly:
Luci
API key available — running the real 3-call comparison now.
Luci
Real data. Latency overhead ~2-3s on proxy vs API; answer parity confirmed substantive on all 3. Writing the eval results doc:
Luci
Both gaps closed. Decommission verified — only lucienne `hermes` (PID 1034076) bound to 8645, hermes-eval has no live services. Gate-closing MC-3821 and filing Phase B follow-up:
Luci
**MC-3821 closed — Phase A done end-to-end.**
Final state:
- `hermes-proxy.service` running as lucienne, `127.0.0.1:8645`, smoke OK
- `hermes-gateway.service` (user scope) polling `@hermes_thegrey_bot`, allowlist Elmar DM
- `second-opinion` → proxy primary, `XAI_API_KEY` fallback
- 3-call comparison: mean +2.09s (+27 %) latency vs API, **substantive parity 3/3**
- Kill-policy `hermes` prefix forward-ported to `feat/mc-3829` (deployed branch)
- `AGENTS.md → CLAUDE.md` symlink — Hermes reads Luci's rules natively
- Eval doc `docs/plans/2026-05-20-hermes-grok-on-sub-eval-results.md` committed (`0183886`) + pushed
- Port 8645 has a single lucienne process bound — hermes-eval safely shadowed
**Phase B → MC-3833** (provider-switch `grok-on-sub` slot — worker picks up next cycle).
Phase C (Hermes as orchestrator) stays out of scope; file when wanted.
Luci
Background install task completed cleanly — that's the second `hermes-install-lucienne.sh` run from earlier. Already redundant since the install completed via the other invocation. No action.
Luci
Same — first background install run completed. Redundant, no action.
You
so what was next on the Hermes plans? bullet points please
Luci
MC-3829 closed — OAuth chrome exemption + marker CLI + 6/6 tests verified. Other 5 routine.
Luci
## Hermes — what's next
- **MC-3833 (Phase B)** — open. Add `grok-on-sub` target to `~/.claude/skills/provider-switch/` so worker `runtime_profile` can route calls through `127.0.0.1:8645`. Wire one cheap off-MC worker to it as proof.
- **Decommission hermes-eval** — sandbox user no longer needed (lucienne owns the proxy + gateway). Stop any leftover hermes-eval services, remove home dir, delete user. Saves RAM + clears confusion. Small ticket.
- **Merge `feat/mc-3829` to master** — current deployed branch carries MC-3821, MC-3829, MC-3810 fixes. Fast-forward into master so the line of history is clean.
- **`@hermes_thegrey_bot` first chat test** — you `/start` it on Telegram, confirm `hermes-gateway.service` binds your chat ID and Grok-4.3 replies on sub quota. No code, just live verification.
- **Lucienne (Mac) Hermes** — you installed it. Open question whether Mac-side becomes user-facing chat surface and Luci-side stays service-only, or vice versa. Worth a one-line decision before duplicating effort.
- **Hermes proxy → service alias** — currently second-opinion calls `127.0.0.1:8645` directly. Future: expose via Tailscale-bound port (Mac / Lucienne can reach it without an SSH tunnel). Optional, only if Mac needs it.
- **Phase C (Hermes as full Luci-orchestrator)** — deferred. File when wanted. Bigger eval: Grok-4.3 vs Opus 4.7 on orchestrator workload, multi-channel routing, persistent memory comparison.
Priority order if you want me to run it: MC-3833 first (low effort, completes Phase A→B chain), then decommission, then merge to master.
You
I can confirm the bot works. What I don't see is the option to add Hermes as runtime to MC and to the options we have? Because then it is actually a simple setup right? We just swap luci persistent from Claude Code Opus to Hermes Grok
should we install more models in Hermes?
Luci
## Adding Hermes as MC runtime — yes, simple
**Concept:** define a new `runtime_profile` entry that points scheduler/pickup at the Hermes proxy. Workers and scheduled tasks can then pick it via the existing `runtime_profile:` field in their task YAML — same mechanism as `claude_glm`, `claude_kimi`, etc.
Two scopes to do this:
- **Runtime profile** — `hermes_grok_oauth` (or just `hermes_grok`). Sets env: `OPENAI_BASE_URL=http://127.0.0.1:8645/v1`, model=`grok-4.3`. Any task that prefers Grok-on-sub picks it. **Low risk, reversible.** This is what MC-3833 already covers — bundling it with Phase B.
- **Swap luci-persistent itself to Hermes-Grok** — single config flip *in principle*, but the chat orchestrator is calibrated against `claude`'s stdout + MCP signal shape (`mc_ask_question` etc.). Hermes has different MCP wiring. Needs verification that ticket harvest still works against Hermes signals. **Bigger bet** — that's Phase C territory, deferred.
Recommend: Phase B (MC-3833) ships the runtime profile first. Once that's stable, run a Phase C eval to compare Grok-4.3-as-orchestrator vs Opus-4.7-as-orchestrator on real workload.
## More models in Hermes — yes, two specifically worth it
Hermes already exposes 40+ providers. We have the metered ones (Anthropic API, GLM, Kimi, MiniMax) via `provider-switch`. New value Hermes adds = **OAuth-on-subscription** for providers that don't currently have that path:
| Provider | Why add | Cost shape |
|----------|---------|-----------|
| **Codex / ChatGPT OAuth** | Same trick as Grok-on-sub but for **GPT-5** via ChatGPT Pro subscription. If you pay for ChatGPT Pro, this unlocks GPT-5 in Hermes with **zero API metering**. | Flat sub |
| **Google Gemini OAuth + Code Assist** | Free tier supported (no API key). Adds Gemini 2.5 Pro to the council without per-token billing. | Free tier / Code Assist |
Skip:
- **Anthropic via Hermes** — we already have Claude Code (Pro/Max sub) directly; Hermes-as-frontend adds no cost win.
- **The other metered direct-API providers** — `provider-switch` already covers them; no Hermes win there.
So order:
1. **MC-3833 Phase B** — `grok-on-sub` runtime profile.
2. **Add Codex/ChatGPT OAuth to Hermes** — if you have a ChatGPT Pro subscription. Same OAuth dance as Grok did. Adds GPT-5 council member on sub.
3. **Add Gemini OAuth (free Code Assist)** — quick win, Gemini 2.5 Pro on free tier in Hermes.
4. **Later: Phase C** — eval luci-persistent on Hermes-Grok (or Hermes-GPT-5) vs Opus 4.7.
Want me to file MC tickets for #2 and #3?
Luci
MC-3833 closed — `grok_on_sub` runtime profile live + smoke task + provider-switch docs. Phase A → Phase B chain complete. Workers can now `runtime_profile: grok_on_sub` to route through Hermes proxy on Grok sub.
Other 6 routine.
Want me to file the Codex/ChatGPT-OAuth and Gemini-OAuth tickets next (the two new model-on-sub adds I flagged)?
Luci
All 9 routine — acknowledged. Board-sweep auto-closed MC-3837 (recovered watchdog). No action.
You
where should I see the grok runtime?
Luci
Not yet in MC UI — two parallel catalogs:
- **scheduler.py `RUNTIME_PROFILES`** has `grok_on_sub` (MC-3833 added it). Scheduled tasks pick it via `runtime_profile: grok_on_sub` in YAML. ✅
- **models.py `_runtime_profile_catalog()`** is the catalog the MC dashboard / composer dropdown / ticket runtime selector reads from. `grok_on_sub` is **NOT** in this one. ❌
That's why you don't see it in MC. Adding it now:
Luci
Pushed `ac009d2`. Dashboard restarted, active. **Where you should now see Grok-on-sub:**
- **Dashboard composer** (Chat with Luci / New Session) — runtime profile dropdown should list **"Grok-on-sub (Hermes proxy, OAuth)"** alongside the Claude / GLM / Kimi / MiniMax entries.
- **Ticket detail page** — runtime profile selector on any ticket.
- **Tasks page** — when editing a scheduled task's `runtime_profile`.
Refresh your MC tab (Cmd-Shift-R for hard reload — the service worker may have cached the old dropdown options).
If it still doesn't appear, ping me — the catalog reload may need an `ASSET_VERSION` bump.
You
looks like we only added it to scheduled tasks as an option
Luci
Right — `grok_on_sub` is the REST proxy path, **toolless** (chat completions only, no tools/MCP/skills). MC's composer + ticket runtime selector filter out toolless profiles because interactive sessions need tools.
For chat composer / ticket runtime, you need **Hermes CLI itself** as the runtime (Hermes wraps Grok-4.3 with its own tool/MCP machinery). Adding that as a parallel profile:
You
o yes, but that's what I thought we are doing. Because then we have the option to trial Hermes as the orchestrator (persistent Luci) or even for tickets.
Luci
Pushed `044a4db`. Now two Hermes/Grok runtimes in MC:
| Profile | Backend | Surfaces | Tools? |
|---------|---------|----------|--------|
| `grok_on_sub` | REST proxy (OpenAI-compatible /v1) | scheduler, triage, summary, signoff, console | ❌ toolless |
| `hermes_grok` | Hermes CLI directly | **persistent**, **ticket**, scheduler, console | ✅ full (skills, MCP, hooks, agents, file/shell tools) |
Hard-reload the MC tab (Cmd-Shift-R) — composer dropdown should now show **"Hermes CLI - Grok-4.3 (sub)"** as a real option for chat/ticket sessions. That's the one you'd use to swap luci-persistent or any ticket worker over to Grok.